More conversations with A.

A. The gift part of your above comments is eye opening and profound. While I have always understood it to be a gift and even read the scriptures that say so I guess tht never has made sense before. It was always a 'necessary tool to get further in God' and while that may be, it has always been presented and understood by me that it was really something special that was very difficult to obtain. This is fun chatting though. How about another topic that pertains to our respective church attendance? How does the predestination message come into play in your opinion? How about Eternal security? As you know I attend Bethlehem which is Baptist so you know how they believe. I have not felt these were Heaven or Hell discussions and I am one of those people who believes that the D. P. way is incorrect. You can't be an alcoholic and womanizer, conciously and with intent, and be in God's will and have His blessings. I just don't buy that teaching. He is always there to fogive and accept us when we sincerely confess but can we get to the point where we have lost Him, so to speak, or fallen away? I guess I think of D- S- L. A baptist would say that apparently he didn't have a 'real' salvation experience. What's your take?

Me. It would be absurd to say D- had never been saved. So the only alternative is yes, you certainly can choose to turn your back on God. If we don't have free will,  life is just a Punch and Judy puppet show.

A. Maybe it was simply interpretation but what about where the spirit draws us? Doesn't that say He chooses who He calls? Few are Chosen. Same thing? I am not saying I go either way at this point. I believe a little of both. The ways of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord. Does that mean He decides what when where? Or He simply put the circumstances there knowing which way we will go? Again I think as you seek God daily some things just simply fall into place but it is interesting to discuss.

Me. I think you have to start the discussion with the foundation that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." To me, "whosoever" sounds all-inclusive. 2Pt3.9: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Again, to me that's pretty plain - God is not willing that any should perish. But some do. Why? Because they choose to. They reject the constant wooing of God's Spirit and choose death instead of life. Think back to the Garden. God gave Adam the perfect environment. But Adam rejected God's counsel and chose disobedience. Now Adam repented, but not everyone does. I think Adam is all mankind in microcosm, i.e. He deals with all just as he dealt with Adam. All are fallen but God calls everyone of us to repentance. Some are quicker to resond than others; some harden their hearts and turn the other way and eventually cannot hear the Holy Spirit's voice any longer. It's interesting to me that when Moses saw the burning bush in Ex. 3, it is "when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, [that] God called unto him...." What if he hadn't turned around to see? I think millions of people every day ignore the burning bush of God's presence in so many ways. "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." Attributed to Einstein (I'm not so sure) "It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." That's another one that I'm more inclined to believe Einstein might actually have said. Anyway, my point is that the world is an obvious miracle, that God is constantly calling all of us; sometimes we turn aside to see and sometimes we don't.